Malema accuses Zondo of political interference over Zuma meetings

Acting Chief Justice Raymond Zondo’s interview for the Chief Justice position became heated on Friday after Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) leader Julius Malema, questioned the judge on meetings he had with former president Jacob Zuma.

During the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) interview, Malema accused Zondo of “political interference” when the judge met Zuma in 2008.

‘Kill for Zuma’

Zondo had asked to meet Zuma to discuss Malema’s “kill for Zuma” comments when the EFF president was the leader of the ANC Youth League (ANCYL).

Zondo said he had met Zuma as a private citizen to avoid “bloodshed” over Malema’s comments.  

“I was concerned it would end up with violence. I thought he should have spoken to you [Malema]. He listened to me and I give him credit. He understood but my recollection is that he said he had not spoken to you in public, but had spoken to you in private,” said Zondo. 

Malema said Zondo’s meeting with Zuma was “unethical”.

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“That was a statement made in a political rally and you left and went to meet with president Zuma to discuss my political position as a judge, and proceeded to in matters where the organisation I led… and I looked at you… the organisation I lead came to litigate against president Zuma and you never indicated to the court that you knew president Zuma… to a point where you can even discuss political issues with him,” said Malema.

Malema also criticised Zondo for not being able to remember what was discussed during two meetings the judge had with Zuma before he was president.

“There is no way you can be called by president Zuma twice, in a hotel… you remember the years, you remember that it was in a hotel, you remember he was not in government. But you don’t remember what you were discussing with president Zuma at that time,” he said.

JSC interviews: ‘I know I am not entitled to chief justice post’ – Zondo

Malema vs Lamola

Zondo’s interview then became chaotic when Malema and Justice Minister Ronald Lamola started yelling at each other.

Malema insinuated that Lamola asked Zondo to consider appointing Gauteng High Court Judge President Dunstan Mlambo in an acting position at the Constitutional Court (ConCourt).

The EFF leader said this was not the normal process for judicial appointments.

“No, no, acting chairperson, that’s a lie, it’s a blue lie what commissioner Malema is saying,” Lamola shouted.

READ MORE: Tainted Malema and Mpofu must step down from JSC – Freedom Under Law

Malema responded: “But don’t say I’m lying. What do you mean I’m lying? Do not say I’m lying! That is disrespectful!”

Malema then asked acting JSC chairperson Xola Petse if he was going to allow Lamola to accuse him of lying.

“It’s wrong. I’m on a platform here and I’m not going to be called a liar here.”

Lamola then withdrew his claim, but said the EFF leader was “out of order”.

All hell breaking loose.
Lamola subsequently withdraws his accusation that Malema is lying and says he is “out of order”.
This is all in relation to Mlambo’s acting appointment at the ConCourt. pic.twitter.com/CCOIw305ej

— Karyn Maughan (@karynmaughan) February 4, 2022

‘Judicial capture’

The EFF is expected to lay a complaint with the JSC against Zondo and Lamola.

The Red Berets have accused the acting Chief Justice of unethical conduct, and Lamola of trying to manipulate judicial appointments.

Speaking to Newzroom Afrika on Saturday, EFF head of presidency, Sinawo Tambo, argued that Lamola asking Zondo before the Gauteng judge president was shortlisted was a manipulation of the appointment process.

“In our understanding based on the proceedings yesterday, the acting Chief Justice was put under undue pressure by Minister Lamola to appoint specific candidates in the ConCourt without any logical or sound reasoning.

“When Minister Lamola [informed] the acting Chief Justice that there are certain candidates that are not being considered for acting positions in the ConCourt… [Zondo] was able to rebuke that assertion by saying here’s a list. The candidate that the minister spoke of specifically, which is Dunstan Mlambo, was on the list,” he said.

ALSO READ: Zondo faces questions on state capture commission work

“For some inexplicable reason, which seems to have come after a phone call between the minister and the acting Chief Justice, Judge President Mlambo ended up being appointed [in the ConCourt] resulting in the two candidates that [Zondo] had proposed initially being scrapped.

“To us, this is a form of judicial capture which may in the ultimate end put Judge President Mlambo as the Chief Justice of South Africa because he was put in a position where he [would gain] experience in the ConCourt due to this improper process of appointment,” Tambo continued.

Tambo said Zondo had also pointed out “it is not the norm that one arm of the state reaches out to another arm of the state, being the judiciary, and put a level of pressure that a certain candidate must be appointed”.

“In ordinary circumstances, it is the Chief Justice that formulates a list of candidates and reaches concurrence with the president with a recommendation from the minister of justice as well,” he added.