AUDIO-RECORDING: A conversation with a wiseman, Madiba

Audio 2

1. Recalling how visits to RI were conducted.
2. Mobilising in prison; use of hunger strikes; describes first struggle – going slow.
3. Describes different diets for African, coloureds and Indians
4. Demands washing of their own clothes
5. Complaints against Prison authorities
6. Singing whilst working was banned but continued in the evening
7. Demand for productive work, moved from lime quarry to sea
8. Did not receive corporal punishment
9. Fighting the policy of the prison department not individual warders
10. On RI got authorities to treat them as political prisoners; when transferred to another prison had to start again.
11. On arrival of youth to RI after 1976
12. On being transferred to Pollsmoor Prison, together with Sisulu
13. Describes cell and conditions at Pollsmoor; exercising at Pollsmoor
14. Fitness training in prison Mon to Thur
15. Describes hearing that his eldest son died; refused permission to attend the funeral
16. Death of his mother
17. Think carefully before he takes a decision
18. Trip in the city (CT) in Dec 1984
19. Relates memo to PW Botha, and meeting him on 5 July 1989
20. On his being released
21. On Kobie Coetsee
22. On being transferred to Victor Verster
23. Start talks with the government when he was living alone on Victor Verster; did not tell his comrades beforehand
24. On telling his comrades in Pollsmoor, and Oliver Tambo in Lusaka of talking with the government
25. Obstacles to negotiation, including the armed struggle
26. Visit to Tuynhuys; meeting with FW de Klerk
27. De Klerk involved in preparation of his meeting PW Botha
28. Describes his release at 4pm, receives call from Clarens Kuyter who asks him to walk out of the gate; and drive to CT
29. Surprise at seeing the crowd at the gate
30. Describes being caught in the crowd
31. Call from Tutu; arrive at grand parade, reads his speech
32. Explains collective approach in drafting speech
33. Goes to Bishopscourt – Tutu’s house for the night
34. Address press conference Mon morning
35. Explains why he thought it was time to negotiate
36. Morale was high – didn’t ever think he will die in jail
37. Came back with the same views and political passion as when he went to jail but in jail had lots of time to think;
38. People have both flaws and strength, and allowances should be made for both